Backstreet Boys' Everybody String sound

[Snipes3000]

I tried to recreate the sweet sounding strings that you hear from the moment the vocals start in Backstreet Boys Everybody (Backstreet's Back). My first thought was that it is a super saw from a Roland JP8000. But this synth wasn't released yet when the song was made.

I used Diva, Serum, Dune 3, Repro-5, some Omnisphere patches and samples, Sylenth1, EQ spectrum matching but couldn't get close enough. Sylenth1 gave me the best result!

Is there anyone who knows more about how Denniz PoP used to make that sound back then or how it would be done today?

[Tano87]

That pad was the StringWheel from E-Mu Vintage Keys

[Snipes3000]

Thanks. I did some research on vintage keys plus preset 15. According to emumania.net the name of preset 15 is apo:C3/M12. I have two possible explanations for the name. 1) Apo stands for Armenian Philharmonic Orchestra (other presets on the same bank have the category epo, which - I guess - would then be English philharmonic orchestra). C3/M12 could represent 3 clarinets and 12 males. 2) C3/M12 refer to synthesizers from which this sound was taken. M12 could be the Oberheim Matrix 12, while the C3 remains unknown to me.

[Snipes3000]

Thanks. I did some research on vintage keys plus preset 15. According to emumania.net the name of preset 15 is apo:C3/M12.

-I found a preset in Proteus VX 2.0 under vintage keys with the name apo:C3/M12 ESI. 
-I found in the manual that M12 represents Oberheim Matrix 12, patch 1 or 2.
-I couldn't find what C3 stands for. My interim conclusion is that it stands for Synth Cycle 3. I do not know yet what synth that represents, but it is on the list instrument list of the Vintage Keys. I have seen a PPG Cycle preset on the list of the Proteus VX vst. As PPG kind of was - by my knowledge - the first developer of wavetables on analogue synths, I suspect the C3 Synth Cycle 3 to be a PPG synth, moving wavetable.
-Apo probably stands for analog piano, while epo should stands for electric piano. This is based on the preset names given behind both apo and epo. On the VST there are a few presets which combine the apo and epo categories. These presets use the & symbol in its name.
-Here is the manual https://www.emumania.net/wp-content/uploads/emu/manuals/E-MUVintageKeysOperationManualRev.C.zip.
-Just go through the Proteus VX presets, they are really sounding 90's. If you want to use these things for present day production, my recommendation is to use the original sources instead of the ROMplers. This means layering a PPG synth with the Oberheim Matrix 12. If only there was a proper working Proteus VX vst. I can't even adjust the envelope generator.

[Snipes3000]

C3 is the hammond organ and M12 is oberheim matrix 12 strings. Those 2 sounds are combined. Epo stands for electric piano.

[WhatTheFox]

I tried to recreate the sweet sounding strings that you hear from the moment the vocals start in Backstreet Boys Everybody (Backstreet's Back). My first thought was that it is a super saw from a Roland JP8000. But this synth wasn't released yet when the song was made.

I used Diva, Serum, Dune 3, Repro-5, some Omnisphere patches and samples, Sylenth1, EQ spectrum matching but couldn't get close enough. Sylenth1 gave me the best result!

Is there anyone who knows more about how Denniz PoP used to make that sound back then or how it would be done today?

Do you have a sample of how close you got with Sylenth1? I was thinking about getting that VST for string sounds because I heard it was pretty good for that.

[Snipes3000]

I wrote that message a long time ago, and I was just at the start of experimentation when I didn't have much knowledge of gear. Now I would no longer go for Sylenth1 as such as synth didn't even excist in 1997. The strings probably came from a rompler and the rompler sounds are just samples from other sources. The one someone on this forum suggest was used is C3/M12 from vintage keys plus, which is a combination of Hammond C3 organ with Oberheim Matrix12 Strings.

[nznexus]

hello..

well i suggest you invest into the real hardware... if you have alot of money, get the emu proteus 2000 rack, the roland jv 2080 and the korg triton

why? because, because plugins dont come close, they come close but not enough.. i got a yamaha motif xs and i love it.

[Tano87]

Thanks. I did some research on vintage keys plus preset 15. According to emumania.net the name of preset 15 is apo:C3/M12. I have two possible explanations for the name. 1) Apo stands for Armenian Philharmonic Orchestra (other presets on the same bank have the category epo, which - I guess - would then be English philharmonic orchestra). C3/M12 could represent 3 clarinets and 12 males. 2) C3/M12 refer to synthesizers from which this sound was taken. M12 could be the Oberheim Matrix 12, while the C3 remains unknown to me.

Have u found anything for the organ used as a kind of "percussion hat"? I searched on Korg M1 there are a lot of similar but still different than the one used on Baby One More Time for example. I get this as a comparati on because I think it's the same used for the other songs.

For the strings/pads they always used different stuff I guess but the main under every string track is StringWheel for sure, it comes out everytime you filter a song or instrumental track

[Snipes3000]

1. Stringwheel
A) You quoted an old message of me that wasn't a final conclusion. To present the final conclusion: preset 15 should be apo:C3/M12. Apo means analogue piano (piano in this case also includes synthesizers). C3 is hammond C3 (organ) and M12 is Oberheim Matrix-12 Strings.
B) Here is a quote from Shellback Raise your glass mixboard:
'Track 41 Organ
- This organ is from a studio in Los Angeles. I think we have it in the plug. B3 it's called. Lies only on one note in the chorus and a little later in the bridge'
I'm not specialised in organs but I think the B3 and C3 are close to being the same.
C) In addition, in one of the cheiron documentaries it was Andreas Carlssen or one of those guys who spoke of this organ sound, describing it as a "funeral sound" and saying that it was a Denniz Pop trademark and that he indeed used it very often if not consistently. I think it's the documentary from the BBC. So this should confirm your observation on the use of the stringwheel sound.

2. Organ used as percussion hat
The percussion organ, are you talking about the 4th notes piano that is played? Can you give me a few examples so that I'm sure I will be looking for the right sound? I will have a look.

[Tano87]

1. Stringwheel
A) You quoted an old message of me that wasn't a final conclusion. To present the final conclusion: preset 15 should be apo:C3/M12. Apo means analogue piano (piano in this case also includes synthesizers). C3 is hammond C3 (organ) and M12 is Oberheim Matrix-12 Strings.
B) Here is a quote from Shellback Raise your glass mixboard:
'Track 41 Organ
- This organ is from a studio in Los Angeles. I think we have it in the plug. B3 it's called. Lies only on one note in the chorus and a little later in the bridge'
I'm not specialised in organs but I think the B3 and C3 are close to being the same.
C) In addition, in one of the cheiron documentaries it was Andreas Carlssen or one of those guys who spoke of this organ sound, describing it as a "funeral sound" and saying that it was a Denniz Pop trademark and that he indeed used it very often if not consistently. I think it's the documentary from the BBC. So this should confirm your observation on the use of the stringwheel sound.

2. Organ used as percussion hat
The percussion organ, are you talking about the 4th notes piano that is played? Can you give me a few examples so that I'm sure I will be looking for the right sound? I will have a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkZhJiPhyG4
After the snare and the kicks u can hear the StringWheel from the pre-chorus and the Organ used like a kind of percussion hat, that's how it sounds in most part of the final products used...
If u donwload the multitracks u have it more isolated in the second verse section.

[Tano87]

1. Stringwheel
A) You quoted an old message of me that wasn't a final conclusion. To present the final conclusion: preset 15 should be apo:C3/M12. Apo means analogue piano (piano in this case also includes synthesizers). C3 is hammond C3 (organ) and M12 is Oberheim Matrix-12 Strings.
B) Here is a quote from Shellback Raise your glass mixboard:
'Track 41 Organ
- This organ is from a studio in Los Angeles. I think we have it in the plug. B3 it's called. Lies only on one note in the chorus and a little later in the bridge'
I'm not specialised in organs but I think the B3 and C3 are close to being the same.
C) In addition, in one of the cheiron documentaries it was Andreas Carlssen or one of those guys who spoke of this organ sound, describing it as a "funeral sound" and saying that it was a Denniz Pop trademark and that he indeed used it very often if not consistently. I think it's the documentary from the BBC. So this should confirm your observation on the use of the stringwheel sound.

2. Organ used as percussion hat
The percussion organ, are you talking about the 4th notes piano that is played? Can you give me a few examples so that I'm sure I will be looking for the right sound? I will have a look.

This preset is totally different than the real StringWheel pad. The attack is different. There's no tremolo. This also sound very shrill.
Other people here on this board confimed it's on position 15 from Vintage Keys/Vintage Keys Plus and also posted samples from each note with different velocity. The real one is warmer than the one on the emulator.

[Snipes3000]

Add effects, compress it to hell, adjust the attack on the emulator? My advice is to just use a matrix-12 emulation + state of the art hammond c3 samples and combine them into your own modern stringwheel sound. EMU took the original devices, recorded them, layered them and put them into that preset they have. Everything became lofi because of sampling methods and because that Vintage Keys rompler was lofi.

[Tano87]

Also to have the real sound I had to mute the piano part of the preset but it still wasn't the real deal.

[Snipes3000]

Since I started this topic, I haven't attempted again to recreate this sound. In the coming weeks I will do another attempt and report here.